Jason Hartman gives us a Flash Back Friday episode originally published in January 2015. He hosts Mark Meckler, the co-founder of the Tea Party Patriots, and is the first tea party member to appear on Jason’s show. Mark illustrates why the tea party is hated; he also talks about changing the constitution to limit government power. He gives us insight into hosting the largest multi-city protests in world history. The conversation goes into technology, secession, and other related issues.
Announcer 0:00
Welcome to this week’s edition of flashback Friday, your opportunity to get some good review by listening to episodes from the past that Jason has hand picked to help you today in the present and propel you into the future. Enjoy. This show is produced by the Hartman media company. For more information and links to all our great podcasts visit Hartman media.com.
Announcer 0:23
Welcome to the holistic survival show with Jason Hartman. The economic storm brewing around the world is set to spill into all aspects of our lives. Are you prepared? Where are you going to turn for the critical life skills necessary to survive and prosper? The holistic survival show is your family’s insurance for a better life. Jason will teach you to think independently to understand threats and how to create the ultimate action plan. sudden change or worst case scenario. You’ll be ready. Welcome to ballistic survival, your key resource for printing The people, places and profits you care about in uncertain times. Ladies and gentlemen, your host, Jason Hartman.
Jason Hartman 1:11
It’s my pleasure to welcome Mark Meckler to the show. He is president of citizens for self governance, and co founder of the Tea Party Patriots. He’s author of Tea Party Patriots The Second American Revolution. Mark, welcome. How are you? I am fantastic. Even better being with you. Good stuff. Well tell us a little bit about the citizens for self governance
Mark Meckler 1:30
here. Well, you know, I come out of the Tea Party movement. I was uninvolved in politics until the Tea Party movement started and I was one of those folks who was darn fed up and stood up and started protesting in 2009, early 2009. I kept standing up and protesting and ultimately that led me to the helm of an organization called Tea Party Patriots, which we found it to be sort of the go forward grassroots center for the Tea Party movement. We build that organization to over 3200 chapters and 23 million members around the country. Then I stepped away from the organization about two and a half years ago because I wanted to broaden the base. It was my opinion at that point that the Tea Party brand had reached its zenith, still a great brand, but it reached this point where a lot of people who believed in the ideas didn’t identify with the brand they didn’t the brand had been vilified. And so I knew when I went out and talked to people that believed in capitalism, in free markets, they believed in the Constitution, and they believed in limited government, really. And so when I talked to people about that, and then I would say, Oh, so you’re a tea party, or a lot of people would say, No, I don’t like the Tea Party. But if I said, well, so you’re in favor of self governance. They said, Yeah, absolutely. I’m a self governance person. And that’s why I founded citizens for self governance. It was the idea of broadening the appeal of those ideas beyond the brand of the Tea Party. So
Jason Hartman 2:44
I’m curious. So when was the Tea Party really founded about
Mark Meckler 2:48
2008 it actually officially it’s got started. Rick Santelli, that is now famous ran it in early February of 2009. And so what happened is santel he calls for a tea party on the shores. of Lake Michigan. He calls for it in July, a bunch of us get on the phone together and say we can’t wait that long. And so a week later, February 27 2009, we held the first series of tea party protests around the country. There are 35 of them around the country of which the one I held in Sacramento was one, about 39,000 people came out. And then a group of us got together actually five of us and decided we should do it again. And that’s how we planned the tax day Tea Party, which took place on April 15 2009. That was really the biggie that most people know about. Over 850 Tea Parties around the country, over 1.2 million people came out, actually historically, making it the largest multi city simultaneous protests in world history. Wow, that’s amazing. Give that give those numbers again, April 15 2009, there were over 850 organized tea parties around the country protesting government run amok. Total number of people in attendance to those tea parties, roughly 1.2 million, making it literally the largest single day multi city protest in world history. Wow, that’s amazing. And not a single array. is not a literal problem. Not I mean, it’s just amazing, you know is the critics tried to just slam the Tea Party any way they could. But you compare to occupy wall street, which by the way, I must tell you I support, at least in concept, because I think Wall Street is the modern version of organized crime. But that’s another subject. Oh, and you and I are in the same same place on that as Occupy Wall Street was sort of sending the center stage. I had friends who were participating, and I provided some guidance to them. The problem was is that they wouldn’t police their own. See, the Tea Party’s been extraordinary about policing its own. If there are any problems that ever pop up and everybody around that person. You talked about crimes being committed or even litter. It’s just a self policing movement. Nobody allows that kind of stuff. And Occupy Wall Street was exactly the opposite. It became laissez faire, anything goes drugs, alcohol, literally child abuse, there were rapes. There are all kinds of crimes and so the movement sort of ate itself alive due to lack of self policing.
Jason Hartman 4:59
Yep. That’s true. So, you know, I’m curious, why do people some people hate the tea party so much? I mean, it seems so in line with the concept of the founding of America do they just hate the original intent of the founding fathers is that, you know, you hear this real hatred from the left. I mean, liberals just love to hate the Tea Party. I don’t really exactly understand what their problem with it is.
Mark Meckler 5:25
Yeah. And and I don’t think you are actually could understand because frankly, it’s not rational. If you talk to people on the left, and you explain that the Tea Party’s about free markets and capitalism, and it’s about the constitution and love of liberty, they’re in their own favor. But they’ve been listening to MSNBC and CNN and they’ve been listening to people who call us racist, and, and crazy and backwards and all that stuff. And that’s what they know. And so if you actually get into details, and you talk to people who quote unquote, hate the Tea Party, they don’t have any details. They don’t have any specific reasons. It’s a narrative and they bought into a particular narrative and It’s one of the reasons I spend a lot of my time personally, going out to the left and speaking with people on the left and going to meetings in the left and, and demonstrating to them that the Tea Party, and even American conservatism is not what they think it is.
Jason Hartman 6:12
Yeah, that’s that’s true. It’s interesting. And I think that the left and the right is, I mean, it’s largely a fake debate. It’s like a wrestling match on television. You know, it’s, it’s show business. And it’s really probably designed by the powers that be to divide people and people have a lot more in common than they think they do. You know, so if you look at the right, they want limited spending and limited regulation. If you look at the left, well, they might want some free stuff and some spending, but they definitely don’t want to be regulated too much. So why can’t people come together?
Mark Meckler 6:52
Well, I’m with you. And the reason that they struggle to come together is exactly what you identify you did incredibly well. I call it the profit Politics and hate. It really is important to the politicians that Democrats and Republicans, the liberals hate conservatives, gay rights folks hate marriage and family folks, religious folks hate secularists and vice versa. These are tools that the politicians use to maintain their power and their tools that the media uses to make money. Right? So if we go on TV and I go on Fox News, like I do regularly, a lot of times what they want us to yell at the
Jason Hartman 7:24
evil Fox News really
Mark Meckler 7:26
know exactly when you know. And on the other hand, I go over to MSNBC and I sit on the air with chris matthews on hardball. And in both cases, what they’re trying to do often is foment hatred. I mean, there are exceptions, right? There are people who I would consider straight up journalists, not many, but most of the shows, they ply their trade in hate and they want, they want you to come on and yell at the left and call the left names and I just don’t buy into it because my neighbors, some of them are conservative, and some of them are liberal, and by and large, they’re good people who have very similar values. They might differ a little bit politically but they’re much more Similar than dissimilar, and you know, I engage in this exercise and, and I know, you know all the stuff I’m about to say, but it’s important for your listeners to hear when they’re talking to people of different ideologies. If I’m speaking at an event on the left, I always ask them how many people in that audience voted for continuing trillion dollar deficits? You know what, nobody’s ever raised their hand. This is the left, right. And then I say, Well, I don’t understand because my representatives seem to keep voting for it. And so to hear so why, and then I asked how many people in audience think that we have the best education system in the world, the money is going spot on right where it should to the kids and it doesn’t matter whether I’m at a tea party or a moveon.org type of that. Nobody thinks that we were doing it right. And I asked about criminal justice. How many people in the audience think we have the best criminal justice system in the world? And question, which is that the war on drugs has been a tremendous success. And you know, nobody raises their hand and, and if I’m at a tea party say it’s so weird because I was at a liberal event last night and none of them think that we have the best justice system or the best education. system either, so I’m not sure what’s going on. Am I a liberal? Or you guys tea party? You’re I mean, I’m just confused. And the reality is, we all believe a lot of the same things. And it’s not good for the politicians to let us know that because then they can’t keep taking away our liberty. And our money, frankly. Yep, that’s for sure. So the bigger game is beyond either of those, that’s for sure. Okay, so tell me about your idea for not a constitutional convention. But maybe you can explain what that is, and then explain what you’re trying to do. Sure. So the main project being perceived by citizens for self governance is called Convention of States. It’s found a Convention of States calm. And the idea is this under Article five of the Constitution, that’s where we get the power to amend the Constitution. And there are two ways one is Congress has the power of two thirds of each house to propose amendments, which then go out to the states for ratification by three quarters of the states. That’s one way that’s the way we’ve always amended the Constitution, but you know, during the convention in 17, In 87, in the last couple of weeks when they were winding down, George Mason stood up and he noticed that we had forgotten to include the right of the people to amend. And he said, You know, this is outrageous, because do we really believe that if Congress and the President if the government ever becomes a tyranny, that the government will propose such amendments and as would restrain its own tyranny, and the wisdom of the opposition was so profound and Madison’s notes reflect there was no debate. It was adopted unanimously one of the few things in the constitution to be adopted unanimously to give the people the right, acting through their states, their sovereign states to call an article five amendment convention, specifically for the purposes of restraining the tyranny of the federal government. I think most people Franklin, left or right, agree that the federal government has become a tyranny. They’d like to see it restrained. 60% of Americans say that the federal government is too large to ever do that for itself. And so the only way to do it is we call it we call the convention and we do that 34 states file an application when 34 states do so then there’s a convention of the states and We’re doing that right now literally. And again, people can read about it at convention estates calm. That convention has already been called for by Florida, Georgia and Alaska. We’re looking likely to get that done in Ohio here very shortly. We have legislative sponsors and upwards of 25 states going into the 2015 session. So my expectation is that what people are going to see in 2016, is something extraordinary. Besides the presidential election, what they’re going to see is the citizens of this country actually call and amending convention and meeting convention. In other words, do an end run around the President and Congress and the courts. And we’re going to tell them what the boundaries are. The government is without the federal government.
Jason Hartman 11:37
Okay, so what does this amendment look like? Exactly, and
Mark Meckler 11:40
what’s it called? So we don’t know exactly what amendments will come out of it. What what are germane for discussion during that convention or amendments that would restrain the scope, the power or the jurisdiction of the federal government amendments that would impose fiscal restraints on the federal government or amendments that would impose term limits on the federal government. So any of those things be discussed. And we don’t know exactly what amendments will come out of it. I can tell you what I think I think I’m pretty sure what will come out of it is a balanced budget amendment of some sorts. 80% of the American public support that right now, I think we’ll get term limit. I mean, is
Jason Hartman 12:13
that I’m curious before we move on to term limits, which I would love to see term limits. I mean, that, gosh, well, God, we need your moments. so badly. Politics was never meant to be a career. Okay. That was it was it was meant to be your civic duty, and you do it and then you go back to your business and the
Mark Meckler 12:32
majority of Americans agree. Right. Right.
Jason Hartman 12:34
Yeah. But, um, as far as the Balanced Budget Amendment, you know, I’m kind of wondering if that’s even possible. And I’m, I’m also wondering, believe it or not, if it’s even wise, and the reason I say that is, look, you know, if I as an individual had to balance my budget, for example, at times, especially when I was younger and just starting out, you know, buying lots of real estate and rental properties. You need to extend yourself At times to do a bigger thing, right. And, you know, the government is just totally out of control, obviously. But I think there are short times and good reasons, occasionally not as a standard practice, as we’ve now engaged in for way too long to be in imbalanced?
Mark Meckler 13:21
No, I think you’re right. And every balanced budget I’ve ever seen proposed has exceptions for national emergencies or various kinds of military emergencies, financial, you know, market collapse type emergencies. And, and so exactly what the restrictions should be exactly what those emergencies look like, I don’t really know. But what I do know is a bunch of smart people, citizens and who might have immense faith. You’re going to get together in a convention and they’re going to discuss what those exigent circumstances are. I’ve never seen a balanced budget amendment seriously proposed that didn’t contain some of those out clauses. Now. I’ve my concerns about those two because basically what it means is we’re going to end up ultimately turning that off To the courts, they’re going to litigate, you know, what, are we in an actual national emergency? What does it really mean to be in a national emergency? So I’m a little hesitant to turn it over the courts. But I’m hopeful. And I have a strong belief in the wisdom of the American people that when they get together in convention, they’re going to find some good solutions to those questions and propose a good solid balanced budget. Right exceptions.
Jason Hartman 14:22
Yeah. Okay. All right. Go ahead. And let’s talk term limits. Yeah, term limits. What a
Mark Meckler 14:26
wonderful idea. That is, you know, so here’s, here’s the interesting bit of history that I think a lot of people don’t realize that we actually buy proposition or initiative past term limits on our congressional delegations in 23 states around the United States in 1985. In US vs. Thornton, the Supreme Court told us that we weren’t allowed to impose term limits on our congressional delegations. I think it’s outrageous. I think it was a bad decision. Kennedy went the wrong way on us. In that case, as he hasn’t frankly, in my opinion, in many cases, but the bottom line is supreme court prohibited from limit limiting the terms the only way we can Get those term limits is through an article five amending image and we can actually amend the constitution so that it imposes specific term limits on federal officials, not just only Congress, by the way, how about term limits on the federal judiciary, I don’t like lifetime appointments. When the founders constituted the Supreme Court, the average age of an appointee was 47 years, average life expectancy of a male at that time was 54 years. That meant they didn’t expect these guys to serve very long, they certainly didn’t expect them to affect the course of American jurisprudence for 20 or 30 years like we have now. So the idea of rotation on the court really appeals to me and frankly, in all federal court positions,
Jason Hartman 15:36
so rotational on the court, I mean, the Supreme Court was meant to be a non political office. So
Mark Meckler 15:43
you know, that’s why they get those lifetime terms. What would a rotation look like? Well, so for example, you know, to be set up like this in it, that they get to they serve consecutive six year terms, two back to back or 12 year terms got 112 year term and every cycle three of the justices are off. And they’re rotating off the court. And so you could be rotating off three justices at a time. And every so every 12 years you Come on, you’re there for 12. And then you’re off. And then what we know is we’re not going to get these wild spring swings in jurisprudence that are made by one justice or another.
Jason Hartman 16:20
Yeah, interesting. Okay. All right. It’s sort of hard for me to think about how that would work out in practice, in terms of swings, but
Mark Meckler 16:27
well, you know, what’s the best part is that idea that I just gave you? I don’t know. That’s one idea. I’m not that smart of a guy. I’m sure there are people who would come up with far better ideas in a convention. We’ll get a bunch of people together to debate it. Yeah. Okay.
Jason Hartman 16:39
So how does this convention work? I mean, it’s an What do you call it an amendment convention?
Mark Meckler 16:45
Yeah, it’s a convention for proposing amendments. That’s what it’s called under the Constitution under Article five of the Constitution. And basically the way it works is once 34 states apply for we hold the convention. Each state sends delegates those delegates are chosen all over the state. uses. In other words, it’s true federalism. So I come from California a little bit wacky out here in the West. And in California, we’d probably send 100 delegates, I wouldn’t be surprised, because we have such a vast state with six different interests all over the state. But regardless of how many delegates you send, the state ends up with one vote. So every state is going to get one vote. And in the end, they’re going to cast those votes and anything that Garner’s 26 votes or a simple majority is going to pass out as a proposed amendment. So there might be a whole slate of amendments that come out balanced budget term limits, all kinds of stuff. One of my favorites is the idea of a single subject amendment, meaning that Congress shall pass No, no bills that deal with more than one subject. I love that idea too, because that would just eliminate the pork.
Jason Hartman 17:44
I’m curious. Speaking of pork, you know, Reagan, one of the line item veto, what do you think of the line item veto concept?
Mark Meckler 17:51
You know, I like the idea of a line item veto. It requires Congress and the President to be working together on budgetary matters. That’s the way I think the founders intended it in Again, a line item veto is something that you could propose in actually in an amending convention. Yeah. So
Jason Hartman 18:07
interesting. I mean, if you have a single subject rule, then you don’t need a line item veto, in fact, that might give the president too much power. Just keep it to a single subject. I mean, that would probably be good enough that probably do the trick, you know,
Mark Meckler 18:21
you know, what’s so great about this? So, you know, you and I just sitting here doing this interview, we’re having this back and forth and you say something, I think that’s really, you know, I hadn’t thought about what you just said about the line item veto versus the single subject and then that this is what’s going to happen in convention. People from all over the country getting together saying, These are the problems we have with the way government is running. How do we address these problems? And you’re gonna have smart people sitting in a room together debating I’m sure sometimes in a heated manner, sometimes in a very friendly manner, but you’re going to come up with some fantastic ideas that you are individually could never come up.
Jason Hartman 18:54
No question about it. Okay. All right. What else is on the table anything else or does that kind of cover it?
Mark Meckler 18:58
Well, I mean, there’s so I’ve heard So many good amendments and other one is what what they something called a regulatory freedom amendment. The idea that anything that affects the American people in the economy, according to OMB, or the GAO and 100 million dollars of value or more, any regulation actually has to be directly approved by Congress and others, one of the problems we have in America is Congress passes these broad enabling acts. And then the regulators actually do the real legislating. And, frankly, I don’t really believe that’s constitutional. The founders certainly never intended for the founders to or for the Congress to be able to give away its power to regulate and to give that to other people. And so I’d like to withdraw that power and put it back in Congress and say, you actually have to go on record and vote on any regulation that imposes more than 100 million dollar burden on the American economy. That’s actually sounds like a lot of money nowadays, for regulation. It’s a pretty low threshold. Let’s get these men and women on record saying what they do and don’t support.
Jason Hartman 19:58
I’m quite good. The point the point So, I mean, how likely is this? How many states do we have now?
Mark Meckler 20:03
So we just got started and this project started 18 months ago, you know, it has just an idea. The idea was brought to me by Mike Farris, who’s the founder of the home school legal defense Association, also, Chancellor Patrick Henry College in Virginia and one of the few guys ever to argue an article five case before the US Supreme Court. So 18 months ago, we started a kind of did a dry run in the last legislative session in 14, pass it in Florida, Georgia and Alaska. We’re looking good for Ohio, actually, in this session before the end of the year. We’ve got it teed up right now in about 25 states around the nation for 2015. expect that to jump up to 31 roughly by the time we hit legislative session in January. So I think we’ve got a really good shot for getting it done. And it’s not just a pipe dream. You got folks like Mark Levin wrote the book, Liberty amendments is all about this subject. Rush Limbaugh has come out in favor sean hannity, Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin, Colonel Allen West governor bobby jindal just endorsed so you got the senator Tom Coburn of Oklahoma Senator Ron Johnson. Got Mike Senator Mike Lee has come out in favor of Article five Rand Paul’s come out. So this is a major, major movement in America right now the momentum is much more than I ever expected. It’s really been extraordinary. So I actually think we’re gonna pull it off, I think there’s a good chance we’re going to pull it off in 15.
Jason Hartman 21:19
The problem is there though most of those people seem pretty partisan. You know what I mean? Like, if you’re a liberal listening to this, you think Oh, God, you know, you got Rushton bond, Sarah Palin, they’re gonna freak out and instantly dismiss the whole idea of, you know, out of hand without even considering,
Mark Meckler 21:33
you know, and I think that’s fair. And, you know, the movement definitely comes from the right, because there’s just of nature a reaction in the right to large government. But it’s important to know, like, for example, we have something called the assembly of state legislatures, and these are folks who’ve gotten together to draft the rules for an amending convention. They’re already working on this. They’ve already had two meetings. They’re going to get third one in December in Washington, DC. It’s a bipartisan effort. So every committee in that assembling state legislatures is headed by a Democrat. In a Republican, and you know if you polled the American people 60% that’s not just Republicans, Nazis. Conservatives think the federal government is too big and it’s out of control. And for my friends on the left, you know, one of the things that I tell them about this effort all the time, and I think it’s really important, if we just had the republicans take control of the Senate in a pretty hard way and pretty strong way. Republicans can control more state legislators than ever before, literally, now control both houses and 31. state legislatures, Democrats only control seven. We may I don’t know, but we may elect a republican president, much to the horror of my friends, unless maybe it’s somebody like Ted Cruz, who you know, they consider a real right winger. Well, if that’s the case, do they really want a government in Washington DC telling them then meaning liberals and liberal states What to do? And I think the answer is no, I think the answer should always be no for my friends, like crazy friends here in California who I love dearly and disagree with their politics vehemently. If they’re in control the state of California they should be able to run a liberal politics. If
Jason Hartman 22:59
We’re in the Socialist Republic of California. Do you live?
Mark Meckler 23:02
I live up in the foothills in the Sierra mountains, sort of directly between Sacramento and Lake Tahoe.
Jason Hartman 23:09
Okay. All right, because I grew up in Southern California. So whereabouts Did you grew up a la as a as a kid, and then Orange County as an adult? Yeah,
Mark Meckler 23:17
I grew up in the San Fernando Valley went to school in San Diego. So I’ve stayed in California, my whole life in California is real interesting demographically, and geographically. Because what you have is you have these vast population centers, San Diego and more. So Los Angeles and San Francisco that drive the politics. Geographically, if you look at the state, about 85% of the landmass in California, is demographically conservative. It’s just an unusual dichotomy. You actually see that in more and more states. Now. The more rural areas are very conservative. The urban areas are very liberal. Of course, that’s where the population basis so that tends to drive the politics but we saw in this last election and extraordinary swing you saw states like Massachusetts and Illinois elect republican governors, even they’re tired of the leftward swing. We saw a state like my sister state right over the border in Nevada, right. It’s harry reid territory. And much to our shock and surprise, I was there a couple weeks before the election. Nobody anticipated both houses and the governor in Nevada. Now, all Republicans. I mean, that happened in we had a republican governor now we got both houses. So that’s happening all across the country right now. And I don’t think it’s because people are in love with Republicans. I think it’s because people like the idea of limited government, people are sick and big government intrusion on their lives. And on that, Mark, they see republicans is better they see republicans talking about limited government. Now the question is, will republicans Well, we will see, to me it just feels like two sides of the same coin with the republicans and interfering in my life a little bit less. But they’ve they’ve they’ve moved so far to the left already. He’s had to I don’t know, we’re in total agreement. I agree with that. And I think most citizens agree that that’s why so Look, if that’s the case, I think what you said is 1,000% demonstrably accurate. If that’s the case, then elections aren’t enough. I mean, it definitively tells us if we believe that Republicans are doing kind of same stuff, the elections don’t fix things. Very good point. Elections aren’t enough. And you know, everybody saw who I voted. What do you do? You know, I don’t know, I don’t want to say don’t vote or discourage voting. But you know, come on, no, you know, we need them to vote because we want the best people in place that we can possibly get. But we can’t expect them to solve the problems for us. It’s always been up to the people. That’s the way the system is designed. We expected an engaged electorate or the system wouldn’t work. And so what we have is we have this tool called Convention of States that gives us the power to restrain these jokers in Washington, DC, they’ll never restrain themselves. I don’t care who the President is. I don’t care how what our majorities are in Congress, they will not restrain themselves. That’s what history shows us. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. For sure. We’re seeing it indeed. Here. I am. We’re getting far too close to absolute power. I mean, it’s, it’s just ridiculous. It’s ridiculous. So give out your website, tell people where they can find out more sure that people should go to convention estates calm, and it’s not just find out more, it’s really important that people understand. Nobody is going to save this country except for you. And I don’t mean that figuratively. That’s not rhetoric. I mean it. Nobody’s going to save the country except for you. The question is, at the end of your days, you’re gonna look at your kids and your grandkids and say you did absolutely everything you could Are you going to say I voted? You know, I voted for the right people. And if that’s what you’re going to say, then you got to know you’re throwing up your hands. And you’re really telling your kids you gave up you knew they were going to lose their country. You knew your grandkids, were going to lose our country. And you were okay with that. You can’t be okay with that. You go to Convention of States you get involved. You join the movement. We do an end run around Congress and the President and the courts. And we restrain these jokers in Washington DC. Yeah, good stuff. Well,
Jason Hartman 26:55
sounds like a good plan to me. You know, I’m curious. I have predicted for Many, many years, a long time ago, I made this prediction. And this is necessarily saying I want it to happen. But like you said, it doesn’t seem like the elections are fixing much of anything. Do you think? And well, I’ll tell you my prediction first, within my natural lifetime, and many people are saying, I think we will see a serious secession movement. And I think we will see a successful secession of at least one state in my guest, Texas would be the first ago. And if it did go,
Mark Meckler 27:32
Texas would become the Hong Kong of the United States. Yeah, you know, I think it’s plausible. I think the only way out of it is if we are able to reform the federal government. I mean, this is why this is so important to me, because I don’t think secession is the best thing for the country. I think keeping the union together like a lot of blood has been shed to keep this country together. I think it was a wise thing to keep this country together. I think it’s demonstrably wise and what this country has accomplished, and I personally believe that the United States has its brightest days ahead of us, if we can get back to what made the country great, what the country made this country great was not the idea of an unlimited government. Because the idea of a limited government, it was the idea that the citizen was larger than the government that the citizen was sovereign. We’ve largely lost that in our system today. If we can recover that I believe there’s a renaissance ahead of us and I don’t, I don’t say that lightly. We are right now, going through a technological boom like nothing ever before seen in human history, our ability to communicate, everything is devolving power naturally, right? The media, the mainstream media getting less and less powerful because of shows like yours, right? You can do this. It doesn’t take millions of dollars of equipment, it doesn’t take millions of dollars of support until they
Jason Hartman 28:46
find the
Mark Meckler 28:47
exactly the right now we
Jason Hartman 28:48
and they’re looking and believe. Right now
Mark Meckler 28:51
though, media power is devolving. Technology is devolving power away from the center and out to the masses. I think
Jason Hartman 29:00
I call it I call it the democratization of everything. I
Mark Meckler 29:02
think that’s a fantastic I’m going to steal I’m writing that down. No, do
Jason Hartman 29:05
not take that. Because that’s going to be the name of my TED Talk.
Mark Meckler 29:08
Well, I’m gonna give you, I’ll give you credit for it. I think we are we’re seeing the democratization of everything. And what that equals to me is nothing less than the second Renaissance. If government doesn’t clamp down on it, and it’s a huge if if government clamps down on it, then I think you’re right. I think things point towards this secession movement. If government doesn’t clamp down on if we can push back against it. If we can literally open things up the way things were intended to be. I think we’re gonna see an extraordinary Renaissance, not only in our country, but when America leads the rest of the country, the rest of the world follows. So they’re either going to follow us into darkness. There, Reagan said, are we sentencing our children to take the first step in 2000 years of darkness? Are we going to meet our rendezvous with destiny? Are we going to step up and make sure that doesn’t happen? Yeah, good stuff.
Jason Hartman 29:55
Good, good stuff. Well, I hope this Renaissance comes in I think the thing that people need to leave this interview with thinking and understanding is regardless of what side of the political spectrum you’re on, you must inevitably believe this because history has borne it out to be true every single time. And there’s this simple concept. The larger the government, the smaller the citizen, the larger the government, the smaller the citizen. So I don’t think anyone buddy wants to be small, right? We all want to have be big and have big rights. And when the government gets bigger, our rights contract and they get smaller.
Mark Meckler 30:36
That’s it. And so that’s what we’re fighting for left or right, I’ll stand and die with my citizens and friends on the left for their right to decide about what goes on in their own lives. That’s what I believe in left right center. Doesn’t matter to me, I’ll fight in my own community. I’m more of a right wing kind of a guy in my own community. I’m going to fight for that kind of stuff. But at the national level, the real question in America today is who decides and the real answer should be citizens. Well, Mark Meckler,
Jason Hartman 31:01
thank you so much for joining us. This has been very informative and lively discussion and I’m looking forward to this Renaissance. Thanks for joining us on the show today. Thanks for having me. We’ll keep you posted.
Announcer 31:11
Thank you for joining us today for the holistic survival show, protecting the people places and profits you care about in uncertain times. Be sure to listen to our creating wealth show, which focuses on exploiting the financial and wealth creation opportunities in today’s economy. Learn more at www dot Jason hartman.com or search Jason Hartman on iTunes. This show is produced by the Hartman media company offering very general guidelines and information. opinions of guests are their own and none of the content should be considered individual advice. If you require personalized advice, please consult an appropriate professional information deemed reliable but not guaranteed. This show is Produced by the Hartman media company All rights reserved for distribution or publication rights and media interviews, please visit www dot Hartman media.com or email media at Hartman media.com. Nothing on this show should be considered specific personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax legal real estate or business professional for individualized advice. opinions of guests are their own. And the host is acting on behalf of Empowered Investor network, Inc. exclusively.