Jason Hartman plays an episode where he hosts James Delingpole, columnist at The Telegraph and author of The Little Green Book of Eco-Fascism. The discussion centers around the Green movement obstructing business, leading to higher taxes. He talks about the good, if any, that comes from the movement and then ends with why the Costa Rican Golden Toad has disappeared.
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Welcome to the holistic survival show. This is your host, Jason Hartman, where we talk about protecting the people, places and profits you care about in these uncertain times. We have a great interview for you today. And we will be back with that in less than 60 seconds on the holistic survival show. And by the way, be sure to visit our website at holistic survival.com, you can subscribe to our blog, which is totally free has loads of great information. And there’s just a lot of good content for you on the site. So make sure you take advantage of that at holistic survival calm We’ll be right back. What’s great about the shows you’ll find on Jason hartman.com is that if you want to learn about investing in and managing income properties for college students, there’s a show for that. If you want to learn how to get noticed online and in social media, there’s a show for that. If you want to know how to save on life’s largest expense, there’s a show for that and if you’d like to know about them America’s crime of the century. There’s even a show for that. Yep, there’s a show for just about anything, only from Jason hartman.com or type in Jason Hartman in the iTunes Store. It’s my pleasure to welcome James Delingpole to the show. He’s a columnist at the Telegraph and a columnist at the spectator a broadcaster for ricochet.com and author of and you’re gonna love this title wait for it. The Little Green Book of eco fascism I love that title. James James welcome How are you?
James Delingpole 2:44
I’m very well yeah, I you love the title. But funnily enough, the green is don’t like the title. Well,
Jason Hartman 2:51
they don’t like the title.
James Delingpole 2:52
I think I’m they think I’m toxic. And and, of course, they hate being told they’re fascists. They think that the fascism is is a movement of the evil right? Which actually I dispute by the way.
Jason Hartman 3:04
fascism is a movement of the left.
James Delingpole 3:06
You’ve read liberal fascism, too. I can tell.
Jason Hartman 3:10
I mean, that’s what that’s what it is, you know that people confuse these things. But yeah, it’s amazing. I mean, the environmental movement, they just want to control every aspect of our lives not I just give you one example, which you’re surely aware, James, but I recently moved, and my new home was filled with these CFL light bulbs, which I hate. So I went to the hardware store to buy some new bulbs and the whole aisle is flooded with those things. Nowadays, those dangerous toxic little light bulbs. with mercury you’ve seen a
James Delingpole 3:42
graph on the Internet of the wounds that they can inflict when you if you didn’t try them. One. It’s hideous.
Jason Hartman 3:48
Yeah, yeah. Don’t Don’t break one of those things without calling a hazmat crew. But and they said that, within a year, there will be no more incandescent light bulbs, Bush and Obama have just basically done away with them. They’re there. Yeah. And the cost was enormous. To buy four of them us was just it was $11. I remember when that was like three bucks.
James Delingpole 4:09
Well, Funny enough, weird enough that he’s actually a section in my book on undereye incandescent light bulbs. Can I read it to you? And then you’ll give it give it gives you a flavor of the book where I’m coming from.
Jason Hartman 4:22
Yeah, absolutely. But just so the listeners know, we’re gonna talk about a lot more than this. So Oh, yeah. Which we’ll get to that in a moment to talk about the light bulbs first.
James Delingpole 4:30
Yeah. Okay, so, incandescent light bulbs. I liked incandescent light bulbs, they were warm. They were bright, they didn’t flicker. They didn’t give you headaches. They didn’t take five hours to get going after you turned on the light switch. They didn’t require you to put on a hazchem suit If ever you accidentally broke one. And best of all, they let you see what they would what you were doing. Not so the grim low energy eco bulbs, which we’re all forced to use now, whether we like it or not, whatever how into freedom of choice. Isn’t that how traditionally we determine these issues in the capitalist West? We give the consumer a range of options, say nice bright, cheap light bulbs on the one hand, ugly, expensive, deadly ones full of mercury on the other, and then let the consumer decide that Yeah, I can tell that your amount of a fellow libertarian persuasion and this is this is why this is ultimately why I’m interested in environmental ism, why I’ve spent so much of my time studying it because I’m a I’m very much a small government and big personal freedom kind of guy. And what I see going on in the world right now is a world on the brink of a precipice and it’s uncertain which way it’s going to go. It could go the the way, I’d like it to go, which is more freedom, smaller government, lower taxes, etc, etc. Or it could go the way it seems to be going at the moment which is more regulation. One World Government this this new world order that you keep reading about in in various various green green documents. And that frightens me. And I think people need to be warned about it not not in a kind of kooky crazy conspiracy theorist way, but actually looking at what these guys are saying, Look at what is happening in the real world right now at the United Nations in the European Union in the regulations passed by the EPA, in the Obama administration generally. And what we see is green issues being used as an excuse for a kind of totalitarian control.
Jason Hartman 6:39
Well, there’s an old saying about that green trees have red roots, meaning meaning and communism. For those Well, yeah, I couldn’t get it out
James Delingpole 6:47
there. But my previous book, which I thought was going to be my last word on environmentalism, I thought I’d said it all was a book watermelons are obviously green on the outside red on the inside. And and the reason why I watermelons dealt with with the history of climate change alarmism and it examine the background to the green movement and why it is that the real reasons why we had this climate change scare. And you can trace it back, for example, to the greenest government ever, which was, of course out of Hitler’s you had the first clean air acts being passed in Nazi Germany. The Germans were big. They, the Nazi Germans were big nature, nature lovers gurbles. Sorry, Hitler, Hitler was
Jason Hartman 7:34
it’s funny that they never thought people were part of nature, I guess. Or at least not, at least not certain types of people, gays, Jews, gypsies. You know,
James Delingpole 7:43
you love it right. And you make a good point that there is run through the green movement, a strain of vicious misanthropy and that’s one of the more controversial points I make and I’ve made several times actually just because they hate it so much the enemy But, but you look at Rachel Carson’s 1962 bestseller that launched 1000 greens including Al Gore, the Silent Spring, Silent Spring was responsible for the virtual banning of DDT around around the world, in other words, the most effective killer of malarial mosquitoes. And so this caring environmentalist Rachel, Rachel Carson condemned millions of people to a miserable painful death, which they needn’t have experienced if DDT hadn’t been banned effectively on her say so. And I said the only difference between Rachel Carson and Adolf Hitler was that out of Hitler was slightly more upfront about the need to control the world’s population and how he was going to do it. The green is the modern green is through the backdoor, but that they’re not significantly less dangerous in their, in their hatred of mankind.
Jason Hartman 8:57
Very interesting. Well give us some examples of how the Green moving? How it obstructs business? Oh, I mean, where do you start? I know the list is right. Yeah.
James Delingpole 9:06
What where do you stop? Well, I suppose let me make a more general point, which is, is that I said that the Green Movement was motivated by misanthropy, there’s this, you think of phrases like the earth has a cancer, the cancer is man that comes up. That’s a phrase from the Club of Rome, this this, this this green new organization from the 19 1960s. But as well as this myth, misanthropy there is there is a strong vein of anti capitalism. These guys really want to bring down Western industrial civilization. And the reason they do that is that they think that economic growth is in and of itself a bad thing because of course, as we know, economic growth involves depletion of these things they call scarce resources. And built into the green religion is the idea that we are running out of stuff. We’re running out of oil, we’re running out of coal, we’re running out of everything. thing, and the only way of helping future generations, there’s another phrase they use all the time, the only way of caring for future generations is by, by essentially bringing the industrial system to a close by by by forcing us to Russian Russian goods. Well, I there’s no evidence to support to support this idea that we are running out of resources. Of course, of course, resources to do get depleted, but ultimately,
Jason Hartman 10:30
but new resources are created and new systems are created that use different resources. And Malthus would be, you know, this, this, considered this incredible thinker by all of the world if he were right. The fact is, he was terribly wrong. I mean, this whole Malthusian ethic is just it’s just ridiculous.
James Delingpole 10:52
Yeah. And you go through history and you find that throughout the ages, great men of the time, believe believed that we were running out of stuff. So you had Lord Kelvin at the end of the 19th century, the the beginning of the 20th century, worrying that we’d soon reached peak coal. And that soon we were going to have to abandon steam ships and stuff and go back to the age of sail because because there wasn’t gonna be enough coal. And then you look, had you gone into any major city at the the turn of the 19th 20th century, you would have found Ernest committers meeting to discuss how to solve the greatest industrial problem of the age which was, of course, how to deal with the piles of horse manure that were building up in cities all over the world, because because calves were pulled by horses, transport was pulled by horses. Well, hey, how did they solve this problem? Did did government step into ration the use of horses is probably greenies would argue, well, no man in his ingenuity, devised a new way of solving this problem called the internal combustion engine. So suddenly the horsemen your problems history. problem, suddenly the peak coal problem cease to be a problem. Instead, we had oil and oil work wonders for a time and still, until we started getting these theorists and they began this began quite early on in the age of petroleum, where people started worrying about peak oil. There have been about five peak oils I think where we were told that there was running out well, the oil is still going strong. We were discovering new stuff all the time and in the deca, the Arctic and so on. After that, we’ve got we’ve got clathrates, these these, these concentrated methane deposits under the ocean. We’ve got shale gas for heaven’s sake, shale gas has transformed the US energy economy. We’ve got thorium. We haven’t even we haven’t even begun to exploit our thorium resources yet. So scarce resources ain’t a problem.
Jason Hartman 12:49
I would agree there’s always something new but you know, we The question is, will there ever be a time which none of us know when the jig will be up when maybe we won’t Have a solution when there won’t be a new invention or a new innovation or some ingenuity that gets us out of a pickle. And I mean, it’s just a fair question to ask. So far we’ve we’ve done pretty darn well, I’d say and in developing the world and taming nature and making things work pretty well. And we are conscientious about species extinction and things like this,
James Delingpole 13:25
which is a myth, by the way. Well,
Jason Hartman 13:27
tell us about that. Yeah.
James Delingpole 13:29
Yeah, it’s a great urban myth. Let’s Let’s not not forget that the global warming the whole, the whole anthropogenic global warming scare is just one theater of operations in a major a major war. The environmental movement is conducting on Western civilization. They’ve got all sorts of other other areas, and sustainability and biodiversity or other ones. The idea that species a dropping dead because of because Man’s wanton selfishness and greed is an absolute myth can which is created by this I think it’s a pseudoscience really ecology the whole field of ecology is a was invented by by green is to make to justify more regulation justify these these suppose experts going out into the field and sequestering these particular zones to protect nature from from man’s depredation. And you hear some some scary figures quoted the one one conservation biologist said 27,000 species have been eradicated every year going extinct every year. And then I know another conservation biologist said I’ll see your 27,000 and I’ll raise you or raise you to 40,000 species a year. And these figures are just plucked from the air the number of of species in which have actually provably gone extinct in the in the last 500 years. It’s It’s vanishingly small compared with with the figures that are quoted by the green is
Jason Hartman 15:05
now Well, that’s interesting. I mean, is there any good that comes from the green movement? And let’s just try to be objective here.
James Delingpole 15:12
I this I do nothing but be I mean this I
Jason Hartman 15:17
mean, maybe just awareness, just general awareness in general is it is it right to conserve at all or? I mean, we shouldn’t just be wanton. Lee wasteful, right?
James Delingpole 15:29
No, not not at all. I but but I think that the conservatives make the best conservation is not not not liberals, you know, about that. What do you mean? Yeah, well, well, it’s interesting. Um, I, as you can probably guess, by maxent, and I’m English, I love the English countryside. And when I look at the English landscape, I see a landscape which has not been ravaged by man but which has been shaped to even perfected by Matt, had you had you gone to Britain? What 2000 years ago, you would have found the whole place covered in forest. Well, obviously most of that forest is gone. But what you look at the beauty of the image landscape is a landscape shaped for man’s delectation and and use. So for example, you get the dry stone walls in parts of the country. And the reason we have dry stone walls is partly of course to enclose animals but it’s partly because English country folk particularly the landowning types, did not want barbed wire fences. And the reason they didn’t want barbed wire fences is because they wanted attractive walls that their horses could jump over while fox hunting. Now also what you find in the English landscape is lots of little little little Woods dotted all over the place. These words were put there in order that pheasants can be read for shooting. If you go to Scotland, you you look at the look at the hills and the hills look like patchwork quilts of browns and yellow. and purples. And the reason they look that way is because each year different sections of the Heather are burned by the the, the gatekeepers in order to create the young shoots that the grouse need to, to feed on. Grass obviously maintained for for shooting. Now, it’s interesting Some studies have been done comparing land which is managed by by by landowners for for game shooting and so on and land which is which is which is run by conservation bodies like our Rule of Law Society for the preservation of birds. And there is actually greater biodiversity on the game game estates than there is on the on the land managed by the environmentalist. And the reason for this is very simple, that environmentalist have this aversion to to controlling populations of species. And what happens when you don’t control different species is that one species comes to dominate. And this is this is this is this is a fundamental problem with with with the ecological view of the world well,
Jason Hartman 18:07
and look at the D, they’re a great example of this is the deer population on the eastern, the eastern states of the US. I mean, it’s just out of control, which has caused the tick population to be out of control, which is now causing a Lyme disease problem. And because he This is exactly what you’re talking about. Yeah. And another thing that you’re talking about is, is just the general concept of if people care for things that they have a vested interest in, they care for things that they own. And so when when the kind of the tragedy of the commons right, when it’s everybody’s, it’s really nobody’s because nobody really cares because it’s all someone else’s job. But if you own the land, you’re going to take care of your land. Now Now, that is certainly true in concept and it’s been true in practice. If you look at I remember reading a Greenpeace magazine after The fall of the Soviet Union. And in the in the early 90s, there was just expos a after expos a about just the massive amounts of pollution and the you know, and this is what you get when the government controls the land rather than private ownership. You know, nobody cares. It’s nobody’s land. It’s just it’s everybody’s, so it’s no buddies, if you will. But with that said, and I’m sure we agree on those things. There are certain externalities, the problem of externalities, which is the concept of, if you own a manufacturing plant, or you have a business, you care about making your widgets and who cares if you pollute the river, it’s not your River. You know, it’s like, there are externalities that are not priced in and capitalism doesn’t always do a good job. I think it’s, look, I think capitalism is massively imperfect. I just think it’s better than everything we figured out so far. But but there are issues it’s not. It’s not like it’s it’s a perfect solution. So maybe Are
James Delingpole 20:00
we yeah we where does where does the the worst pollution happen in the world? Well it happened in the 20th century mainly behind the Iron Curtain. Where does it happen now it happens in in third world countries it happens in in China to a degree. I think if you look at the record of free the Environmental record free market economists, they are they are pretty good. We have we have clean air regulations. I have my doubts whether whether whether this stuff wouldn’t have happened anyway. This is this is one of the points that Julian Simon made up Julian Simon the the doom Slayer, as he was known he was. So Julian Simon was once in a debate in in London, I believe, and and some lefty environmentalist was was showing how, how industrial pollution in the city had declined since the since the introduction of the Clean Air The Air Act. And so what Simon did was he whipped out a chart going way, way further back and showed that when you looked at that looked at the totality of history, the Clean Air Act was barely a blip that pollution was reducing anyway. I think one of the one of the great liberal greeny liberal myths is the idea. And I obviously I consider myself a classical liberal. I’m definitely not a liberal liberal. One of the great greeny myths is the idea that the world divides into two kinds of people environmentalist on the one hand, who care about nature and want to save the planet, and on the other evil capitalists who want to destroy it. Well, I know lots of evil capitalists I have to say they don’t they when they go to take their kids to the beach, they don’t think you know what would improve that beach. What it really needs right now is a nice juicy oil slick with maybe a few sea otters choking and joking into nobody thinks that way. We all want to clean the planet. I don’t I don’t buy into this idea that that the businesses want to rape the land and pollute places we have. We have pollution laws, laws in place. And look, just giving it giving an English example again, the River Thames, for example, the terms of the river that flows through London is is infinitely cleaner than it was 300 years ago, we have been making progress. And I think that economic growth goes hand in hand with with improved environment, environmental safety, because what happens is that as people get richer, so they have more money to set aside or making things cleaner and nicer.
Jason Hartman 22:41
Yeah, very good points. Very good points. The imbalance comes when you know, let’s take an example. And we’ll get off of this in a moment. I know we’ve got more to discuss, but on that externality concept, if you will, if Dow Chemical wants to set up a plant and manufacture something and there is waste involved and they got to figure out What do we do with a waste, we got to put it somewhere. So it’s really cheap for them to maybe buy a big piece of land next door and just dump it there. Even though it’s their land, they own it. But they make a decision that we’re just going to put it there because it was cheap, cheaper to buy the land than to do anything more proper with the waste. You know, I’m not an expert on this, how you how you dispose of waste, but conceptually, that’s the idea. So, so that’s where capitalism is sort of it. It doesn’t always work. And I am a hardcore capitalist. But, you know, I just don’t know how to answer that question. If I was in a debate with a leftist who was a greeny and you know, I wouldn’t know what to say to them.
James Delingpole 23:44
Well, I think I have your solution for you. And we haven’t got time to discuss this on the on the show now, but just look up Ronald Coase on your on the internet. That’s Ronald and and CE, O A, S A. And he came, he came. He was an economist. He died. Recently aged, I think over 100 he dealt with this externality issue, which of course, was a favorite of Barry commoner. Barry commoner was your typical green, green sort of junk economist. I don’t buy into this stuff. I understand your concerns but I think actually the problem goes the other way.
Jason Hartman 24:21
No fair fair enough. Yeah,
James Delingpole 24:22
I’ve got guys who are doing the damage right now are the environmentalist. So I’ll give you I’ll give you an American example. The way that the Pacific Northwest forestry industry has been closed down by the green is in the name of preserving this this this mythical creature called the spotted owl. Right when I talk about the spotted owl being a mythical creature I know the spotted owl exists. But but the the real spotted owl differs markedly from the from the creature of the green imagination. The creature the green imagination only only likes pristine, pristine forests. And cannot settle anywhere else it can’t breed anywhere else. Whereas the real the real spotted owl actually is perfectly happy it can it can breed on on second growth forest. Anyway, the spotted owl was one of the first examples of which there are many others you know, you’ve got the snail darter, you’ve got the polar bear and so on of, of, of animals being used as poster children for green green scare mongering campaigns. And what the what the spotted owl did was it was able to do was to have whole areas of the Pacific Northwest sequestered by environmentalist logging industry closed down and what was the result of all this? Well, the problem is that if forests are not maintained, what you get is this massive buildup of underbrush and they
Jason Hartman 25:51
end up burning down that’s right happened in Big Bear I remember it well. Yeah.
James Delingpole 25:56
So that you will you see forest cement to be burned down. cyclically and that’s good and it’s how they renew themselves and how you get new growth and stuff. But what happens when you when you when it when the forest isn’t is not cleared properly is you get, as you probably know, massive, massive fires of which produce such enormous heat that it burns beneath the topsoil and it kills all the seeds underneath. So what you get is this wasteland it always amuses me the way that environmentalists these these guys who are supposed to care about nature and nurture it these are the people who are doing the worst environmental damage and we can talk about forests we can talk about wind farms, wind turbines, which are wood destroying the lands,
Jason Hartman 26:41
you mean the guillotines for birds.
James Delingpole 26:43
Yeah, well I call I call them bat jumping birds slicing eco crucifixes, they cause tremendous damage and, and you have this perverse situation where you’ve got organizations like the Audubon Society and various Other conservation bodies arguing for wind turbines because renewable energy is good, supposedly and supposedly clean and supposedly free, none of which it is. And
Jason Hartman 27:11
no, it’s more expensive and it’s harmful to all sorts of creatures that has all sorts of side effects. You know, it’s it’s a myth. Yeah, these are just big myths.
James Delingpole 27:21
Yeah. So so i think is it Mark Scott Mark Stein calls them queasy notes of the of the sky is the these it’s, it’s, it’s awful and depresses me because I genuinely do love nature. I’m never happier than when I’m swimming in a river or walking up a hillside I was brought up as a kid my dad used to take me on walks and teach me about the newts in the pond at the bottom of the garden and I used to collect the newts and study the goal the goals on oak leaves and and learn that they were made by Google wasps and this this whole area element of wondering nature and loving nature and appreciating for its own sake seems to have almost vanished from people’s childhood job charters these days. It seems that nature is now a vehicle for for guilt, about about, about man mankind. I think that that’s a terrible achievement of the green movement.
Jason Hartman 28:19
Yeah, yeah. And it’s a method of control. And that’s the scariest thing about the environmental movement. I remember I had this one guest on Forgive me. I can’t remember his name. But he was a Berkeley professor that was basically talking, you know, he was spewing all the mouth huzi and stuff I had James Kunstler on recently, he’s doing the same thing. And all of these people when you get to the the bottom line of the discussion is, there are too many people, the population has to be reduced. And I keep wondering why they don’t praise or welcome another genocidal maniac. You know, what we need is another Joseph Stalin or Chairman Mao. If they want to get what they want those people those people were the great environmentalist. I would think they would believe that
James Delingpole 29:01
will scratch beneath the surface. And that’s that that is exactly what they want. You can see them yearning for some kind of eco catastrophe, which will which will prove them all right. I think I think they genuinely think that, that overpopulation is a problem. I just don’t buy into it at all, apart from everything else. population is popular, the the acceleration in population is is reducing, I think the global population will probably probably peak at about nine and a half billion.
Jason Hartman 29:29
But But even if it doesn’t, I mean, human beings are the ones who came along and solve so many of our problems. People are a resource. The the environmental movement just looks at them as a cost. Everybody’s a cost. You know, you’re an unwelcome guest on Earth. If you’re a person, you don’t deserve to be here, but the reality is, people are resources.
James Delingpole 29:51
Yes. Yeah, I agree with that. That was always Julian Simon’s line and I think he’s a he’s a hero Julian Simon. It’s a That the Julian Simon and Norman Borlaug, I think a hair as you’re familiar with Norman Borlaug, aren’t you the guy who Norman Borlaug was, was the guy responsible for the Green Revolution? That’s green as in the good sense of green. He was the guy that that in the 1970s when people like Paul Ehrlich were warning that the writing books like the population bomb, warning that we were all going to outstrip our ability to feed ourselves and we’re all going to die horribly by the 1980s. Well, yeah,
Jason Hartman 30:30
never. That never happened. The opposite happened. We’re feeding ourselves too. Well. Well,
James Delingpole 30:36
yeah, exactly why obesity is a far bigger problem than then starvation, isn’t it? Well, Norman Borlaug was the guy who who, who fed the Indian subcontinent, he enabled into the Indian subcontinent to defeat itself by developing these new strains of short stemmed wheat which were more suited to the to the conditions there and an increasing Reduced productivity massively. Now, no one’s heard of Norman Borlaug even you haven’t heard of Norman Borlaug and you’re a kind of libertarian, but everyone’s heard of Rachel Carson. She’s got about five national parks named after he’s got a Rachel Carson day. It’s, it’s it’s a topsy turvy world we live in and the values of false values.
Jason Hartman 31:20
And it really is amazing. It’s just amazing that such such myths can be perpetrated on the public. You know, it’s just amazing. Yeah, it’s it’s incredible. Well, what else would you like people to know?
James Delingpole 31:31
Well, that that alone, I have this reputation. Among Among these, these green is this snarling, the snarling Big Oil funded. Nature hater. The opposite is true. And if anyone anyone listening to this show doubts the veracity of what I’m saying, just follow the links in my my blogs, look up on the internet and do
Jason Hartman 31:53
give out your website if you would.
James Delingpole 31:55
Oh, yeah, well, my website is is James delingpole.com. James D Li n GPOL e.com just google me you can find lots of stuff I’ve written. And and I’ve written two books on this subject, the little green book of eco fascism, and watermelons. And I can, I can so guarantee that they’re a good read that if you don’t like him, I’d almost be prepared to give you your money back. If you can be bothered to write to me in the UK, which you probably can’t in any way you won’t need to, but stay great.
Jason Hartman 32:26
That’s great. I love it. I love it. Well, James, thank you so much for joining us today and shining some light on on there’s so much more to talk about really, I mean, there’s, this is an endless issue. You can I mean, there’s just every day you turn on the news, and there is some example of either what I call environmental racism. And by the way, we didn’t get to talk about that. But let me just explain that. I had Thomas Sol on one of my shows. And when I was talking to him, I just happened to coined that term environmental racism, because you look at all these high end areas like Like where I used to live in Newport Beach, California, where they dedicate these huge patches of open space. And all that does is make the real estate values skyrocket. So you know, you basically they they keep certain types of people who can’t afford the area anymore out, it would seem like if you wanted to be so liberal and welcoming and sharing, you would let people in. But what they do is they keep people out with this fake open space. That’s not even useful for anything. Nobody goes there. It’s just, it’s just dumb.
James Delingpole 33:31
It’s always you’re gonna sell off the book. Because there’s a lot of this stuff’s in there. And well, thanks for having me on your show, Jason.
Jason Hartman 33:39
Well, good. James. Thanks for joining us. And again, the website is James delingpole.com. Or just google his name. And that’s d l i n g p o le. Thanks for joining us.
James Delingpole 33:49
Thanks a lot. Bye bye.
Jason Hartman 33:54
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