Jason starts today’s show with a discussion on Wall Street and individuals investing in IPOs even when some of the companies invested in don’t have a business plan that works. Later on the show, he chats with author Phil DeMuth. Phil co-authored a book with Ben Stein called The Overtaxed Investor. They talk about how individuals can lower their taxes. Then they go into the idea of Opportunity Zone investments and discuss the Secure Act.
Investor 0:00
When we found you and your podcast was like, Okay, this is what we should have done the first time. It’s like the properties make sense the day you buy them.
Announcer 0:08
Welcome to the creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You’re about to learn a new slant on investing some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world’s most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine self made multi millionaire who’s actually been there and done it. He’s a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur who’s owned properties in 11 states had hundreds of tenants and been involved in thousands of real estate transactions. This program will help you follow in Jason’s footsteps on the road to your financial independence day. You really can do it. And now here’s your host, Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors.
Jason Hartman 0:58
Welcome to Episode 12 69 1269 Today we are going to be talking with our guest about the little book of bulletproof investing. He co authored a book with ben stein, Ben Stein’s an interesting guy. Hope you follow him out there in the media once in a while, and he’s got some interesting stuff to say. But before we do that, I’ve got a couple of things for you. Number one, and maybe the most important, you know, on this show, we delve into the water of making predictions. Yes, it’s a risky business to make predictions, a very risky business. I have got a prediction that I just looked up yesterday, and I’m very excited about it. So I thought I’d share it with you. It is the prediction for the peak fall foliage time in New England and Canada for upcoming cruise. Had Jason Hartman calm slash cruise, you can check that out. And it looks like you know October we’re going to be hitting it
Jason Hartman 2:01
perfectly.
Jason Hartman 2:03
I mean, I tell you, if this prediction comes through, it’s going to be like a splendor of colors. It’s just going to be amazing. So very excited about that. Check that out. Jason hartman.com slash cruise. So there’s a prediction for you, right? There is a cottage industry springing up around Airbnb, as you know, there are several spin offs and cottage industry things, you know, various vendors providing services to people doing long term rentals and short term rentals. That’s all well and good and pretty normal. As I say, capitalism is so efficient at allocating resources. Now, it’s certainly not perfect, but compared to what, it’s a lot better than, than other systems, that’s for sure. So Airbnb will not reveal the addresses of the Airbnb hosts. And so various municipalities Who have outlawed Airbnb and their market for New York is one of the examples of this have subpoenaed Airbnb saying release the addresses so we can go hunt these people down and and find them. We are going to find them for not obeying the law. Outline Airbnb and not long short term rentals. Okay. And now guess what? There is this whole cottage industry of tech companies that are ratting people out? Yes. Not just tech companies per se. But companies that have human contractors that will pose as guests or renters. They are basically ratting people out. So yeah, it’s awfully risky. You can’t hide from the long arm of the law. And I would recommend avoiding practices like that, because they’ll get yet now. The question is, is the law just well That is a nother discussion. No, I don’t think it’s just I get the conflict here. You know, of course, the various cities, they just go where the money is, which is, in many ways disgusting because the government should not be part of the capitalist infrastructure, it should just allow and foster the existence of the capitalist structure, it should not be participating, right? This is the thing you get in poorly managed places like New York and California and Illinois and other left leaning places. Now, listen, left leaning places aren’t the only poorly managed places don’t get me wrong, but by and large, they tend to be on the poor side of management and they tend to be hungry for money. And so they go into business against the citizens to find them to make new laws that they know everybody will break that everybody’s aware of, so that they can they can get them they’ll get Yeah, if they want to get you. That’s just the way the world is nowadays. Sadly, unfortunately, it’s that Wait. So that’s interesting, you know, just know that it’s not just a matter of hiding from some unmotivated bureaucrat. These bureaucracies, these municipalities are hiring these companies to go and provide them with list of landlords disobeying the short term rental laws so that they can nail them. And in some of the areas, the fines are significant, so be careful. Remember, Johnny law will always get you you’ll always get Yes. So better to be on the right side of the law. Okay. Also, we announced our contest and I’ve had several questions about that. Keep them coming, keep them coming. But it’s going to be an awesome contest. That was on yesterday’s episode. And remember, we’ve got some phenomenal prizes. Show us how you’re becoming the empowered investor. I already got a message yesterday from one of our clients talking about how he is becoming empowered and he said he got bids on a repair item for a property decided he didn’t like the quotes he was getting through the property manager that got him a couple of quotes. And he decided to reach out and get his own quote and surprise, surprise, surprise as Gomer Pyle would say, I know many of you listening have no idea what I’m talking about Gomer Pyle. Just look it up and go find a video on YouTube about Gomer Pyle, it was a show and his trademark line was, surprise, surprise, surprise, kind of a Forrest Gump type character. It’s pretty funny. Anyway, he talked about how he got empowered, and he just saved a bunch of money on this repair item for one of his properties. So you can to make a little video tell us how you are becoming an empowered investor. Could be a big macro plan. Could be a couple of little things, little tips and tricks of the trade. It could be simple or complicated. It could be just your five year Plan, maybe you did the five year plan contest we had year and a half ago. Or maybe you didn’t do it. And maybe you want to update your five year plan and submit a video, you can do that. If you enter, then you can enter. Now again, maybe you didn’t participate in that year and a half ago. And you want to go ahead and do a five year plan now. So get it on video shorter than 10 minutes and your first prize, two free tickets to profits in paradise coming up in October in Orlando. Also free membership for one year and the empowered investor community. second prize, two free tickets to profits in paradise. And third prize is one free ticket and there’s a bonus a big bonus if you achieve if you’re the first prize winner and you achieve more than 1000 views on our YouTube channel. And of course you can direct traffic there to that video link and more than 200 on yours. You also get a $3,000 allowance from our upcoming cruise of $3,000 cruise allowance. So pretty good stuff, some big prizes for you. So make sure you do that. I know you’re probably busy working on some videos. So we’ll be telling you about more details as time progresses. And we’ll stick the details up on our website at Jason Hartman calm where you can always also find out about the cruise as well. One more thing before we get to our guests. I wanted to share with you a headline Well, really three headlines. I just saw these last night and it really goes to show how absolutely ridiculous the stock market is. And the world of tech startups. I mean, this company’s past the startup stage, but it’s the company peloton you’ve all heard about this company with those cool exercise bikes and the way they stream content in and you can participate in live classes and blah blah blah. So So, peloton, right? This company is about to go public, right? You’ve seen lift, go public, Uber go public. Everybody’s losing money. We works about to go public. It’s a joke If you ask me, no seemingly real path to profitability, for we work massive expenses. The founder is doing all kinds of funny business. Wall Street is the modern version of organized crime. Now, here are three headlines in a row. I pull up the left wing Business Insider publication last night, and I see these three headlines that are all in a row. Here’s what they say. You judge alcaman in a minute. Yeah, I’ll just read them to you at first. Colleton the buzzy exercise bike startup that ignited the connected fitness craze has filed for an IPO and revealed spiraling losses. Next headline, peloton CEO once bragged on TV that the company was quote, weirdly profitable, unquote. But the startup IPO Filing reveals and you know it goes on to say that it’s not losses basically right? And then the next headline is peloton is paying its two top executives
Jason Hartman 10:11
$21.4 million apiece, even as its last has quadrupled, to 240 $5 million in its most recent update. I mean, this is such a scam. It’s unbelievable. First off, remember something real businesses make money. That’s what real businesses do. Now, admittedly, you know, Amazon as much as I criticize Amazon all the time, they’re a real business. Amazon is a real business quite obviously. And for many years, it didn’t make money but it was actually growing a real business. Okay. So you know, if you want to delay profits to grow the business, that’s one thing, but if you’re just losing money because you’re basically pulling this house of cards tech startup scam of just get big get big get big with no clear path to actually having a real profitable business. That’s what I call a scam. Of course, this is a nuanced subject that we could talk about for the next three days, but we don’t have time. So I mean those three headlines are just ridiculous. peloton is doing an IPO losing tons of money and massively overpaying its executives. Its top two execs getting $21.4 million each, as the company reports a 240 $5 million loss. So basically, that’s $42 million, just for the execs, as they’re reporting a 240 $5 million loss. This is
Jason Hartman 11:50
pathetic.
Jason Hartman 11:51
Would you invest in that IPO? I certainly wouldn’t watch I’ll say that. It’ll go way up, and then it’ll ultimately crash because I Eventually, gravity, this pesky thing called gravity and common sense, eventually wins.
Jason Hartman 12:06
Always does eventually, not always right
Jason Hartman 12:09
away, you know, bad people. They usually don’t get very far in life. They don’t seem like they’re winning for a while, but eventually, you know, things catch up with him. So, that’s that. Okay, let’s get to our guest and let’s talk about bulletproof investing.
Jason Hartman 12:30
It’s my pleasure to welcome Phil to move to the show. He is co author with ben stein, of multiple New York Times best selling books on finance, including the little book of bulletproof investing do’s and don’ts to protect your financial life and the overtaxed investor that he did on his own, as well as many, many other books. Phil, welcome. How you doing?
Phil DeMuth 12:51
Jason, thank you so much for having me. It’s great to be here. My pleasure. Where are you located? I am in sunny Los Angeles, California.
Jason Hartman 12:59
My hometown. I grew up there. Good stuff. Oh, wonderful. And speaking of overtax, that’s why I no longer live in the Socialist Republic of California. Oh, you escaped. I escaped you escaped as they are currently and they have been for years building what I call an economic berlin wall around that state to make sure the money doesn’t escape.
Phil DeMuth 13:22
No, I know it’s harder and harder all the time. The hardest. The biggest objection to my leaving comes from my wife who likes it here. Yeah, we’re so happy wife happy life. It’s hard to get over the wall. I understand I understand completely. Okay. Well, hey, when we look at the overtaxed investor now you your focuses mainly on, you know, the stock market and then that area real estate, as you said before we started is, is its own tax shoulder, it’s its own universe. And that’s what we mostly address here. But tell us a little bit about how the investor is overtaxed in various investments that you covered. What happened was we had a little family business This, and it generated lots and lots of work for attorneys and accountants without really ever making any money. So my tax form was about the size of a phone book, and it had to be filed in six states. Every year I would bow, okay, I’m going to really get to the bottom with this time and see what’s happening to all the money. And I never could do it. So we sold the family business. And suddenly my tax form was about, you know, a few pages long. And I said, Wait a minute, look at all the money I’m paying in taxes on my investment portfolio. And by the way, this is my area of expertise. So Holy smokes, I better take a hard look at this, go over this with a red pencil and figure out ways to try to pair this back. Because this is all this is money that’s going straight from me to the government. It doesn’t it doesn’t need to happen that way. If I would just have been a little bit smarter about organizing my investments. More of the money would have stayed with me where I wanted to stay.
Jason Hartman 14:56
That’s the thing. I mean, didn’t you know you have that family? business so you could pay a bunch of expensive professionals and the government that’s why you were in business, right? It wasn’t for you.
Phil DeMuth 15:08
Evidently not. Well, I’m glad I was able to serve other people in our country by overpaying my taxes. But no, it was just, it was a constant headache was just tearing my hair out, and I don’t have that much hair to tear out. So it was a tough gig.
Jason Hartman 15:22
What can be done to minimize the bite of taxes? Of course, I talk all the time about real estate strategies. But when it’s outside of real estate, what do you do?
Phil DeMuth 15:33
Well, again, real estate is quick. I look across the fence with great indie real estate investors because the whole avenue of real estate investing is just a giant tax elder all of its own. But even real estate investors often have other investment accounts. They have savings accounts, they have brokerage accounts, they have retirement accounts, and there’s stuff they can do on that side of the aisle. And I noticed because I have clients who are real estate investors, I don’t help at all with real estate. That’s that’s how they made their money. But then they have money left over, and I tried to help them out. So there’s just sparked things they can do. There’s been a big movement over the last, you know, 1020 years to get people investing in index funds, rather than tried to speculate and individual stocks are active money managers. And it turns out that his index fund investing is not only good in terms of your investment returns, but because these index funds are very passively managed, there’s very little turnover, they also tend to be extremely tax efficient as well. And that’s part of the secret sauce behind what makes them so desirable. So, I would say people if they’re involved, if they got stock brokers that are turning the accounts, generating commissions, generating capital gains, taxes, short term taxes, I just pulled the plug on that whole enterprise, go over to Vanguard or go to some discount brokerage. Just by simple broad index funds to target the whole market, you know the s&p 500 index or a total market index, total international index, just a few funds like this very low expenses very low tax and you’re covered. It’s a great way to go. I think the late great jack Bogle made us all realize and I’m not even a stock
Jason Hartman 17:21
guy. Okay. But I think he made us all realize that the emperor has no clothes, okay. You know, all of these, all of these fund managers, all of these stock pickers in the real estate world, the market timers, they just cannot perform. It’s the Random Walk Down Wall Street, you know, you just can’t beat that. Sort of the efficient market can you
Phil DeMuth 17:44
as far as I’m concerned, there should be a huge statue of jack Bogle on Wall Street. He’s just the patron saint of the ordinary investor and the guy who really held a shield up against all these this high priced Wall Street pound that was basically picking our pockets. So He’s my hero.
Jason Hartman 18:04
Yeah, you know the the magic question to ask when the Wall Street broker shows you his new yacht where all the clients Yeah, that’s
Phil DeMuth 18:14
exactly that’s exactly
Jason Hartman 18:16
yeah. Okay, so generating tax liabilities by trading is something to avoid right would that be the first principle?
Phil DeMuth 18:24
This is very interesting certainly people tend to over trade they tend to way overestimate their abilities to everybody if they’re like James Bond and casino they can just go in make a few slick moves, I can buy Google I can buy bitcoin and I can do this kind of thing that marijuana stocks are nowhere
Jason Hartman 18:42
and you know, the marijuana stocks and the cryptocurrencies, oh my god, talk about speculators. It’s like gambler Ville, you know, it’s great, right? It’s like,
Phil DeMuth 18:52
a helicopter like a billionaire and, you know, some kind of life that nobody actually leads. So it is certainly if you invest that way, you’re going to usually very, very different kind of life. So people speculate their way overconfident. And so they tend to just trade a lot in short term creating, that all gets taxed as ordinary income, which is the worst possible case. Again, the smart move is really buying index, hold it forever. If it goes down, then sell it immediately and buy something sort of similar to it. So you can harvest a tax loss. That’s a great thing to do. But people hate to harvest tax losses, tax losses, they can count against ordinary income or gains on their taxes. They hate harvest, because they always think, Oh my God, if I do that, that means I’m a loser. And I just know I can just tell that if I keep hanging on it’s going to come back. And that’s just it’s not a good strategy. You’re better off harvesting the losses, taking them applying them to your taxes and buying something similar so you don’t have a wash sale.
Jason Hartman 19:56
Now. I don’t know you know, I don’t follow the tax law as it relates to stock investing. Very Well, but that is another thing, at least previously, I really hate about the stock market among many others. Right? I’m on the fact that it’s the modern version of organized crime. Right. But
Phil DeMuth 20:14
is that when you harvest losses, you have to be incredibly strategic about that. At least it used to be I don’t know if this is even still true anymore. But you can only deduct $3,000 per year against, oh, no, the losses against gains are fine. But if you don’t have a loss, what’s that 3000 a year, we’ll just refresh my memory. 3000 a year is if you have capital losses, and you don’t have gains to set them off, right here. Yes, you can deduct $3,000. Let me tell you $3,000. Sounds like a lot. It’s not all that much money, right? So but at least it’s like a token mouth you can offset against ordinary income. Mostly what you try to do is you try to at least at the end of Every year you go through all of your holdings and stocks, bonds, what? and figure out what you want to sell, you certainly want to sell everything to lose or if anything has gained, you want to change to something else, you want to make sure you have offsetting losses, otherwise, you’re just generating returns for Uncle Sam. Right? It’s just you got to be very
Jason Hartman 21:19
strategic about that, too. Okay, any other big ideas in this side, we want to talk about some other things too. But anything else you want to say about this.
Phil DeMuth 21:27
Another thing that people often don’t pay attention to, is typically, they have an IRA, they have a Roth IRA, they have a brokerage account, and they tend to have the same thing, all the same investments and in all the three different types of accounts, even though the three different types of accounts have completely different tax implications. And this, again, is partly the fault of the investment guys, because they find it’s more convenient to run the accounts just putting all the same investments, all the accounts and all the same ratios. And so that’s gonna be it for this But it’s not the optimal approach. What you want to do is you want to take things that generate a lot of taxes, you know, dividend stocks in particular or taxable bonds, and you want to park those in your IRA accounts. And you want to put the high growth assets that don’t generate a lot of taxes along the way, you know, stocks, you know, index funds or a company like Berkshire Hathaway that doesn’t pay dividends as a get paid a dime dividend, Dec 1968 or something, but it’s not going to pay dividend what buffets on the watch, and put these growth assets in your taxable account where it’s very tax efficient. That’s a much smarter, much smarter way. And again, it doesn’t take a lot of work to organize things this way. But it will mean you have a much lower tax bill in the long run.
Jason Hartman 22:48
I’m kind of curious about something since you mentioned Berkshire Hathaway, you know, Warren Buffett is not exactly a spring chicken anymore. Would you buy a share of Berk today Given that he can’t keep working forever, and the price is pretty inflated, too.
Phil DeMuth 23:06
kind of curious to get your take on that. Thanks, again to my friendship with ben stein. I’ve had a chance to meet Warren. I’ve had dinner with a couple of times. And so again next to jack Bogle, I have a statute in my heart of Warren Buffett says, Yeah, so I think that, you know, take a look at this year, the s&p is up, I don’t know roughly 15% and Berkshire Hathaway, which used to beat the s&p routinely is a, I don’t know, maybe it’s a 1%. Maybe it’s flat, maybe it’s down 1% for the year. It’s a huge gap index funds are killing Berkshire Hathaway. So what are we to think about this? Does this mean that he’s lost his Mojo? Does this mean that it’s all over? Well, I think it’s really more that it’s just a year last year that was like this for him was 1999 during the big you know, tech bubble and works was killed. Everybody’s said, Oh my gosh, who wants to buy this boring old company? We need to be buying pets.com. And so he turned out to be right. And I think that at this point, Berkshire Hathaway certainly it’s not a cheap stock. But I don’t think it’s a bad value. I’m happy to buy it, happy to put clients into it. But it doesn’t march in lockstep with the s&p 500. But it often does better in times when the s&p is down. So and because it’s a friend in hard times. I like it. Yeah.
Jason Hartman 24:30
Well, and you know, it might really indicate that it’s not that Warren is doing so terribly. It’s that the s&p is in a bubble, or I don’t know, maybe you look at that from the other direction. Right.
Phil DeMuth 24:40
Right. I think the SP is probably richly valued and the stocks that Warren Buffett likes, which tend to be more value stocks are more out of favor right now. So it’s just that particular discrepancy. And the way things are today is probably not the way things will always be at some point there will be a reversion at the two We’ll meet again and probably virtual do extremely well. He’s got a great team in place, the people that are going to take over after he checks out. I think it’s a great company. Yeah, hold it. Yeah.
Jason Hartman 25:11
What are your thoughts on income property and real estate? I know
Phil DeMuth 25:14
it’s not your thing. But you know, you said it’s fair to chat about it a little bit. So just thought I’d ask very generally, you know, you have clients or real estate investors and such, right. I think it’s great. I wish I knew more about it. I wish I had income, more income properties. You know, I invest primarily through public markets. So clients own publicly traded real estate investment trusts, that that’s that the pure that mean, there’s some nice features of them. But I think if I were smarter and better poised, I would have spent more time investigating and investing in real estate income properties. I think they’re fabulous for them.
Jason Hartman 25:52
And that leads to kind of a component of that, which is the opportunity zone discussion. We just talked about it for maybe 30 seconds before. Starting today, but as you know, from what I mentioned, I’m not much of a fan. I’m not too impressed with the opportunities own stuff. There’s a ton of promoters and a ton of hype out there. I say it’s largely overrated. But what are your thoughts about opportunities own?
Phil DeMuth 26:16
First of all, I’m extremely skeptical is the entire premise. The idea that government can somehow say, we can try to intervene in the economy saying, oh, people to auto invest like this, instead of investing the way they think the auto invest, and that’s what’s going to produce the great social outcome. This is ridiculous. I mean, the government, if they were that smart, we’d already be living in some kind of utopia. But they’re not that smart. This is just, it’s an opportunity for mischief as far as I can see, and already there are more questions for the IRS about how these things are going to work than before any other piece of legislation and their history. Nobody knows how it’s going to come out. Although I have some ideas how it’s going to come out and you will hear them it’s not going to be pretty. It’s so overcomplicated
Jason Hartman 26:58
and You know, who knows that those, like you said those areas are going to really improve that much. You can simply do 1031 tax deferred exchange if you’re coming out of another property. Right. Right. And so, you know, if you’re a real estate investor, just keep doing your thing, right. That’s what I’d say
Phil DeMuth 27:18
one of my concerns not to be overly cynical about Wall Street, because there were there are our friends, that one of my concerns is they’re able to help these things being Oh my god, you’re going to have these psychedelic tax benefits, all your capital gains, just put them in our fund, and they’re going to all just go you to hold me over 10 years, it’s called go away. It’s gonna be great. I can see how this is a great asset gathering idea. And I can see how it’s a great asset lock up, by the way, for 10 years, right. But then, there’s that little tiny niggling question of, wait a minute. Okay, actually, you’re the guy taking my money today, but who’s gonna be minding the store 10 years from now. And do they even care if this thing makes money for me in the long run or not? I don’t know. I see the asset management opportunity here. That’s great. But where’s the business? That is going to be there? 1015 years from now, that’s going to have made money. I think I’m better off just doing but I already know how to do minding my own business, rather than betting that they’ve got some great business opportunity. It’s a great sales opportunity, right? Yeah. But I don’t know what to get after this. Show me the great business opportunity for me there.
Jason Hartman 28:27
That’s what I haven’t quite locked in. Not yet. That is a great point. And that’s why it’s being promoted so heavily by all these promoters. It’s a great deal for them. That doesn’t mean it’s a great deal for the investor, right?
Phil DeMuth 28:40
Alas, no, that’s that’s the problem. That’s the problem. Yeah. Very interesting.
Jason Hartman 28:44
Any final thoughts? You want to share? Maybe a question I didn’t ask you or whatever.
Phil DeMuth 28:49
Yes. I’m currently steamed up about something called secure Act, which is yes. Thank you for being here. Yeah, I think this act is theory bad deal. It’s going to take anybody who’s got a big IRA, an IRA that say as much as a million dollars or more, right, and it’s going to force that IRA. The money’s got to be pulled out in big chunks by your heirs. Okay, so let’s let’s let’s do this. Let’s, let’s tee this up just a little bit if we could, the secure air is really being pushed through by the insurance industry lobbyists. Right, right, because they want to make an annuity, a feature, that’s part of every retirement plan. Okay, this also bothers me, but go ahead,
Jason Hartman 29:35
let’s contrast the way things are now. So if you have a big IRA, when you pass away, and there’s, you know, there’s a lot of asset money in that IRA. What happens now versus what is the what are the insurance lobbyists trying to push through to change
Phil DeMuth 29:51
it? Well, the insurance lobbies didn’t really care that much about the IRA part they want, they just want to sell annuities. They want one annuity to be an option without retirement plan. This is just another piece of it because the bill is sort of a hodgepodge of a bunch of things. So this part of it is just about, if you have an IRA, now you can leave it to your kids, your kids can take that money out in small increments over their entire lifetime. And in fact, you if you want, you can leave it to your grandkids, and they can pull it out, you know, if your grandkids are five years old, they can stretch that out over the next 80 years if they want to, actually the smartest way of playing it. The Act, however, has a different idea. It’s going to force anybody that takes it other than your wife, your surviving spouse, it has to flat out in 10 years. And that means all the money is going to be taxed in very high brackets. It’s going to totally screw up any college planning that’s being done for those families and for those kids. And it also is going to mean that suddenly, you know your 18 year old kid, you know he’s going to get a $500,000 IRA and it says Begin in a trust I was gonna have to all be pulled out. And this is a G. I’ve got $500,000. Now, what was that a McLaren. I saw on that movie that, how much do those costs? I mean, it was just complete nightmare for any kind of family financial planning, college planning, estate planning. So I’m telling everybody, Google, contact your Senator, Senator, Senator email, telling them to please keep your hands off. Mr. IRAs don’t pass the Security Act. That’s my political mission. Yeah, I’m a political activist these days. So that’s why thanks, I it’s been a huge mess. They were going to try to pass this thing with no debate, that it’s hugely important that it does the last 20 years of financial planning around retirement accounts. And it’s just shocking. That is something that just important can certainly be passed under the radar without anybody knowing about it. Right. And it’s all about you know, the thing is all about follow the money as our Watergate informant, so La, follow the money follow the money. So the money is going to be made by the insurance companies. If this happens if this change happens, right? They’ll make a lot of money. And a lot of money will be taken from other people that had IRAs when they leave their kids and the money ends up going to the government instead with this family. And so this is what we want to stop. Interesting.
Jason Hartman 32:22
All right, give out your website and tell people where they can find you and your books.
Phil DeMuth 32:25
Oh, thanks. Just Google filled amuse at Amazon Lucille a bunch of books. My website is filled, abuse calm,
Jason Hartman 32:33
and there’s so much for having me. My pleasure, Phil, and I just spell your last name it’s D myth. Right. Perfect. Fantastic filter Muth thanks for joining us. Thank you so much for listening. Please be sure to subscribe so that you don’t miss any episodes. Be sure to check out the show’s specific website and our general website heart and Mediacom for appropriate disclaimers and Terms of Service. Remember Guests opinions are their own. And if you require specific legal or tax advice, or advice and any other specialized area, please consult an appropriate professional. And we also very much appreciate you reviewing the show. Please go to iTunes or Stitcher Radio or whatever platform you’re using and write a review for the show we would very much appreciate that. And be sure to make it official and subscribe so you do not miss any episodes. We look forward to seeing you on the next episode.
